Warning by GM for using Macroquest

secrettoo · Post by **secrettoo** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:00 am

In relation to the post 'Karana is a marked server', i have also had a warning on my account for running macroquest a few days ago. Suffice to say i dont run it anymore as i like to play the game. But they suddenly seem to be doing something about MQ, and a guide also was standing in front of my other computer's character when i had MQ loaded but didnt do anything. I think he wanted to ensure i was enchanting clay manually rather than AFK, and i was actually doing that manually that time. So we chatted and he left.

But the guy is right, they know when you are using it. I wasnt running any macros that day, i just had it running in the background so i can use MQ's / ability to show me the zone listing. I was in Plane of Knowledge. But i have a warning now, and next time he says i am suspended or banned, but i have nothing to worry about if i dont use it.

I would like to thank the MQ developers for doing an awesome job with this program, and i dont hold any animosity for me getting caught against anyone other than myself. I used it at my own risk, but got caught. Tradeskills suddenly have gotten a lot more mundane for me, MQ made them enjoyable. Its a bit of a pisser, but thats life.

Here is the exact text from my log (with my name removed) from the GM (name also removed). I tried to get as much information from him as possible without pushing my luck, in the hope of working out how he knew. I have a screenshot, i will upload it to my webspace and attach it to this post asap (with certain info blanked for obvious reasons).

GM tells you, 'Greetings player, GM xxxx here. Are you available?'

You told GM, 'sure am'

You told GM, 'just getting ready to go to Plane of Innovation with friends presently.'

GM tells you, 'I am placing a warning on your account for using a third party program to modify your game play. Continued use of this program will result in the suspension and/or banning of your account.'

You told GM, 'hmm ok, fair enough. how long will the warning last for'

You told GM, 'program now unloaded and wont be used again.'

Taking a screenshot... (yes i have screenshot, i will upload it)

GM tells you, 'It lasts for the life of the account, as we use them as references to any future infractions you may be involved in. However, as long as you do not break any of the policies you have nothing to worry about.'

You told GM, 'and which program are you referring to me using specifically?'

GM tells you, 'I cannot say specifically, as there are more than one which produce the same information as that I see on your end.'

* more than 1? like what? which other programs use detours?

You told GM, 'k, i've unloaded it now. can you check that i am not producing any of this information now please?'

* 10 minute silence

GM tells you, 'There are some things I cannot answer player, but as long as no other programs are running which alters EverQuest you are fine.'

You told GM, 'k, not running anything that alters everquest anymore.'

end of conversation.

As everyone says, use MQ at your own risk, but i cant afford to risk it anymore. I got caught, I lose.

RPZip · Post by **RPZip** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:03 pm

I'd like to see the screenshots on that.

secrettoo · Post by **secrettoo** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:39 pm

Screenshot now uploaded.

Plazmic · Post by **Plazmic** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:09 pm

I'd like to see the screenshot also, and your log (was there /echo's on screen before the GM talked to you type stuff)

I personally have done way too many things while trying to debug stuff that should have set off red flags and the only soul mark I've ever recieved was from before I started MQ for nuking guards in FP from the wall.

SOE/VI have never contacted me in any manner asking me to stop working on MQ.

driftinsupra · Post by **driftinsupra** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:11 pm

Funny thing actually...I have been running an exp macro for a little while while I am playing and I saw a guide the other day in the area right whe I zoned in...He followed me around for awhile...didnt show up on a /who (macros filtered). I asked him what he was doing and he simply said "Just exploring". What is a Guide doing exploring? Anyway I didnt run the macro that day and havent seen anything since and noone has said anything to me. This was just last week.

Lax · Post by **Lax** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:03 am

/shrug, I've had guides follow me around and watch me play, that just means you have leet skillz! :)

As far as displaying stuff, I'm working hard on UI stuff and hopefully I'll get us a display window to use undetectably soon.

Zxeses · Post by **Zxeses** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:32 pm

Wouldnt it be simple to count the associated EQ DLL's, and say there normally are 10, but this time it turns up 11 ....

The GM would know something was up, but not know which program you are using. it sounds to me like they are using somthing of this nature, just some kinda checksum.

How do we have the offset change checkers detoured?

I remmeber back when I used to run a quake server, we had this anti-cheat code that would expect a certain response back. The brainless response by the cheats would be to simply send back the "correct" reply when asked. All I had to do to change this was come up with random/altering challenge/responses.

Lax · Post by **Lax** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:35 pm

No, because all sorts of DLLs are loaded by the system. You could count the DLLs on one system and it would be 10, and then on another it could be 200. What they would be looking at is information in your chat windows.

Falco72 · Post by **Falco72** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:15 am

By the way, is the $GM command working? I have in all my macro a $GM to make a fast /help normal, but in months it never kickin (ie $GM never was TRUE). Maybe I am only lucky and never had a GM in the same zone with me (even in POK??) but I have some doubts about the $GM working status.

theafkxper · Post by **theafkxper** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:47 am

$GM works great =)

its kicked off a couple of my bots on more than one occasion...

which is interesting becaus eyou would think they would start /tellin gyou befor ethey show up if you /q everytime they enter the zone, although i guess they migh tnot have been looking for me.

Mckorr · Post by **Mckorr** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:10 am

driftinsupra wrote:What is a Guide doing exploring?

Actually Guides are encouraged to explore so that they are more familiar with the various zones. You just don't see it much because they are either already familiar (a lot of high end folks who love the game get bored and become guides, so they already know where everything is), or because they are far too busy in these days of limited customer support. As little as a year ago it wasn't that uncommon to see a Guide pop in just to watch, see how you were doing, even socialize a bit.

Nanan · Post by **Nanan** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:09 pm

I too question the $GM command atm.

I have a small sub in every mac I use that checks for gm in zone via $gm. A few times I have done a /gmlist and have seen GM in the same zone that I am in, yet the $gm still comes out as false.

Its kinda odd to be looking at a GM walk around you while my $gm check sub keeps echoing false on the telnet.

|---

They the GM's must have some way other then the chat buffer to tell If you are using MQ. Yes, I know the GM can take a screen shot of your screen on their end. But when they do that you will notice a burp in the PL as your connection spits out a bmp(?) to their end. And anyway the GM seem to be able to walk into a zone and tell who is using mq and who is not very quickly. this isnt a one by one thing.

MQ is leaving a tell tail signature somewhere that is queing in SoE. As this seems to be a relativly new ability for them I am thinking that it was something added in around the time Ldon went live. Several of my friends have recieved warnings in the last few weeks where we have all been using mq for months before with out any intervension.

|---

Guides are encuraged to explore non-restricted zones so that they may better help players with situations that may arise. But they are not to enter restricted zones such as; tower of solro, elemental planes, VP, ST, VT, timea/b, or any instanced zone in ldon(this can mess up the adventure and cause an auto fail).

/edited miss information, its Senior and up for GM that can do it. And Im not totally sure if its in bmp format but thats what iv heard.

MacroFiend · Post by **MacroFiend** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:22 pm

LOL ... Guides to NOT have the ability to get a screenshot of what is on your computer. I would seriously doubt that GMs have this ability. On a 1024x768 screen, a screenshot is a 2MB BMP. You would notice more than a "burp" if they were to take a screen shot ... you're talking about a 2 minute upload on their slowest supported connection (56k). If that were an option, they would need an image compression routine hiding in there somplace make the screenshot a reasonable size which would beg the question, why do they make our screen shots BMP. Not to mention the invasion of privacy if they just grabbed a screen shot whenever they feel like it.

I've dealt with many guides for training and KS issues and even though I have had a screen shot, they are adamant that the only evidence they can accept is the chat text of a /report. If they could grab a /report from your client, why would they always require players to /report the issue? They aren't that sadistic to make you do things they can do by themselves. (Ok ... maybe some of them are)

Maybe GMs have some way to request a /report from your client but I would bet that it is a tool that even the normal GMs don't have ... or that they have to get special permission to use.

As far as I know, Guides only have access to commands available inside EQ (the commands that regular players don't have but can be offset hacked to work like the /zone commad). I don't know what kinds of in-game tools the GMs have beyond those of Guides or Senior Guides but I kinda doubt they try to maintain to many different codebases. There may be some offline tools that GMs can do to identify when someone has been using a 3rd party app like MQ though, so you may have a warning pending until a GM can issue it or something like that.

Mckorr · Post by **Mckorr** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:20 am

Guides and Senior Guides use a standard EQ Client. A flag on the account (not the character) enables additional commands, such as /zone and /kill. Hacked versions of these commands are crippled, because the account does not match the server side check.

GM's have a different client. I'm not sure about the abilities of that client, having never seen one. The GM's are very closed mouthed about it's capabilities. I do know that it has always had the ability to run windowed, long before they let the player client do that.

Only a GM can call up a /report. They window out of EQ to do it. In fact most of the time the GM client isn't even online, and the GM's are handling info passed to them online (via secure website) by the Guides, or by email.

A GM can log on any player account. What they actually do is make a local copy of your player, a "clone", log it in, check and make adjustments, then copy that clone back over your serverside files. From dealings with GM's it appears they can roll back your toon to any previous checkpoint/save, so obviously their tools allow them to choose which version of your toon they call up.

I've never heard of them being able to take screenshots of an active client. Certainly Guides can't do that. It's pretty obvious they can echo any chat or messages to their client, and they have access to the server logs. The servers log everything, which is why they want dates, times, and locs on petitions. Narrows down their search through those logs, and helps locate any /reports done.

motd2k · Post by **motd2k** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:39 pm

I think people are actually being confused by the guides ability to bind sight lol

MOTD

Warning by GM for using Macroquest

Warning by GM for using Macroquest

Screenshot, see log above for full text