Window question
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LordGiddion
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Window question
Why is MQ interface limited to happening within eq - ie the new MQ window? Why don't we use the power of C and Directx to Write MQ windows OVER EQ the way Xylobot does? Since Xylobot uses it's own windows over the EQ interface, xylobot scripts can create custom interfaces within those windows. The one advantage xylobot scripts have over MQ ones is the ability to reconfig on the file with these custom interfaces. For an example look at the Xylobot trade script http://www.giddion.com/tradescript/
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LordGiddion
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Curious, is there a problem with liking some features of another program? There are things I like about AO and DAoC that I don't like about EQ does that make me evil? However just like EQ now has con color in it's target window like DAoC has had from day 1 Programs can get new features if the programers like features other programs have. I think I have contributed to both comunities, I think I have made solid contributions into the most popular MQ script (genbot) and the most popular Xylobot script (tradescript). Xylobot is limited in certain ways because of it's desire to keep on friendly terms with Sony so it can't grow. MQ doesn't have this limitation and can grow - forgive me for making a suggestion that way.
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LordGiddion
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MQ only uses EQ windows.
Xylobot accessesthe DirectX video layer and create it's own dialog windows and user forms. These windows apear in EQ, they minimize with EQ but they are seperate basically sitting over the top of eq looking like you had alt-tab a seperate application. They visually apear like standard windows-windows - Blue title bar min/max exit. If you download the xylobot demo and the script I pointed out you'd see what I mean. That script is a tradeskill macro simular to ts with ini support found here. However since Xylobot script can create full windows it has a series of setup windows through which the end user is able to double click options, select info off of drop downs, press button etc. With those windows the user sets up the ini content with out ever opening the ini file or ever having to understand the structure of the ini. As I've said I've writen a bunch of scripts for both systems and right now I'm using MQ exclusively all I am saying is the abilty for scripts to create an interactive user interface is the only feature of xylobot that I miss when coding in MQ.
Xylobot accessesthe DirectX video layer and create it's own dialog windows and user forms. These windows apear in EQ, they minimize with EQ but they are seperate basically sitting over the top of eq looking like you had alt-tab a seperate application. They visually apear like standard windows-windows - Blue title bar min/max exit. If you download the xylobot demo and the script I pointed out you'd see what I mean. That script is a tradeskill macro simular to ts with ini support found here. However since Xylobot script can create full windows it has a series of setup windows through which the end user is able to double click options, select info off of drop downs, press button etc. With those windows the user sets up the ini content with out ever opening the ini file or ever having to understand the structure of the ini. As I've said I've writen a bunch of scripts for both systems and right now I'm using MQ exclusively all I am saying is the abilty for scripts to create an interactive user interface is the only feature of xylobot that I miss when coding in MQ.
I'll attempt to answer this one LG:
Xylobot is a DirectX application. It doesn't interface directly with EQ, it overlays it's controls over the top of EQ. So yes, Xylo can do a few things MQ can't.
MQ was never designed to be a general utility program. It started out with only the SuperWho functions, and grew from there. MQ injects itself directly into EQ, becoming an extension of that program. That's it's greatest strength. By becoming a part of EQ it not only can take control of various functions directly, it is much less resouce intensive than Xylobot.
True, that does limit us on the "custom interface"... for now :) Lax's work with manipulating the UI directly has the potential to do all those things you are looking at. Given time we should be able to invoke a UI subset, injecting our own windows into the EQ client, formatted by our own XML files. Not just create a new "MQ Chat" window that is local to the client machine, but a fully formatted custom window with buttons, bars, whatever.
The idea DOES have merit. Could be very nice to have a GenBot window, with appropriate input areas, buttons, etc. to set up and control the bot. Or a generic macro window, with /listmacros down one side, so you can select a macro, enter parameters, and click "run".
First though, we need to finish ironing out the existing bugs in the current MQ chat window.
Xylobot is a DirectX application. It doesn't interface directly with EQ, it overlays it's controls over the top of EQ. So yes, Xylo can do a few things MQ can't.
MQ was never designed to be a general utility program. It started out with only the SuperWho functions, and grew from there. MQ injects itself directly into EQ, becoming an extension of that program. That's it's greatest strength. By becoming a part of EQ it not only can take control of various functions directly, it is much less resouce intensive than Xylobot.
True, that does limit us on the "custom interface"... for now :) Lax's work with manipulating the UI directly has the potential to do all those things you are looking at. Given time we should be able to invoke a UI subset, injecting our own windows into the EQ client, formatted by our own XML files. Not just create a new "MQ Chat" window that is local to the client machine, but a fully formatted custom window with buttons, bars, whatever.
The idea DOES have merit. Could be very nice to have a GenBot window, with appropriate input areas, buttons, etc. to set up and control the bot. Or a generic macro window, with /listmacros down one side, so you can select a macro, enter parameters, and click "run".
First though, we need to finish ironing out the existing bugs in the current MQ chat window.
MQ2: Think of it as Evolution in action.
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LordGiddion
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McKorr thanks for a well thought out reply rather then bashing me as xylobot lover. I will wait and see what Lax comes out with, or maybe even try to help if I get the time to get my C back up to speed.
I would think the adds I did for GenBot might qualify me as a respectable MQ contributor but I guess not.
I would think the adds I did for GenBot might qualify me as a respectable MQ contributor but I guess not.
LordGiddion, I am sorry to have offended you with my comment. I had no idea such a simple observation would have been taken as a hostile flame - it was not intended that way.
I did not say, nor did I imply, that there is a problem with liking some features of another program. I did not say, nor did I imply, that you are evil. I did not say, nor did I imply, that you have not contributed to both comunities. I did not say, nor did I imply, that your contributions were not solid.
I see no reason to forgive you for suggesting that MQ can grow - I think it was a good suggestion.
I did find it humorous though, as the way I read your post basically said "Xylobot is great - MQ should try being more like it" (which your later posts negated).
All in all, the fact that it "sounds like somebody likes Xylobot" was enough for me to click the non-MQ related link you offered to see if I would also like it. Personally, I like MQ way better - but that's a preference thing.
I did not say, nor did I imply, that there is a problem with liking some features of another program. I did not say, nor did I imply, that you are evil. I did not say, nor did I imply, that you have not contributed to both comunities. I did not say, nor did I imply, that your contributions were not solid.
I see no reason to forgive you for suggesting that MQ can grow - I think it was a good suggestion.
I did find it humorous though, as the way I read your post basically said "Xylobot is great - MQ should try being more like it" (which your later posts negated).
All in all, the fact that it "sounds like somebody likes Xylobot" was enough for me to click the non-MQ related link you offered to see if I would also like it. Personally, I like MQ way better - but that's a preference thing.
Both programs have good and bad points. Xylobot is more generic, meaning you can make it work with other programs, but it is resource intensive and slow. MQ only works with EQ, but it has a small footprint and is very fast and robust.
There are people that prefer Xylobot over MQ, and vice versa. There are people that use both at the same time. Both are good projects and good systems.
I prefer MQ first, because it doesn't lag my machine all to hell, and second, because it's open source and I can look inside and make any changes I want instead of relying on what the designer thinks is best. And you don't have to be a dev to see your code implemented here.
Then again, the only online game I play is EQ
There are people that prefer Xylobot over MQ, and vice versa. There are people that use both at the same time. Both are good projects and good systems.
I prefer MQ first, because it doesn't lag my machine all to hell, and second, because it's open source and I can look inside and make any changes I want instead of relying on what the designer thinks is best. And you don't have to be a dev to see your code implemented here.
Then again, the only online game I play is EQ
MQ2: Think of it as Evolution in action.
A comment on the architecture of Xylobot:
Xylobot plays man-in-the-middle between EQ and DirectX. Think of instead of detouring "EQ functions", they simply detour "DirectX functions" if you want to think of it that way.
When EQ asks for a drawing space, it really is asking Xylo, who creates it's own and relays it to EQ. So essentially it retains hooks into every drawing, mouse or keyboard hook done. With these hooks in place it becomes trivial to inject (as we do) simulated keystrokes, mouse movement as well as Pixels.
A very good analogy of what is going on here with Xylo is, for some of you when your video card is accessed, a little "nvidia" logo pops up on the screen (unless you turn it off). When an app makes a DirectX video call, the video card driver detects it and if this setting isn't turned off, the little logo appears, then it proceeds with the DirectX call. Xylo in a similar way kind of "detours" EQ DirectX calls to "massage" them however it wants.
So, the saving grace here for Xylo is that it wrappers/detours DirectX whereas we wrapper/detour EQ. This is primarily what has left it alive because it can be "agnostic" regarding the program it supports to a large degree because it is hooking DirectX calls not a specific software app. This gives you some leverage legally when Sony comes suit happy on you and says you are not licensed and are selling something based on our product. He just diversified and stymed that (good for him).
I am/was a long-time Xylo user, prolly about #20 on his registered list. I think his program is good,
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That said, I'll give Xylo his dues. Wrappering DirectX calls isn't a simple feat much less drawing on EQ requested surfaces unless you already know how to do it. All we have to do is figure out where EQ makes it's DirectX surface calls (hopefully it is in a global function) then detour it... viola... I just dont have time anymore to help other than just advice via the forums.
Let me know your thoughts. And btw Lax, awesome job dude.
Xylobot plays man-in-the-middle between EQ and DirectX. Think of instead of detouring "EQ functions", they simply detour "DirectX functions" if you want to think of it that way.
When EQ asks for a drawing space, it really is asking Xylo, who creates it's own and relays it to EQ. So essentially it retains hooks into every drawing, mouse or keyboard hook done. With these hooks in place it becomes trivial to inject (as we do) simulated keystrokes, mouse movement as well as Pixels.
A very good analogy of what is going on here with Xylo is, for some of you when your video card is accessed, a little "nvidia" logo pops up on the screen (unless you turn it off). When an app makes a DirectX video call, the video card driver detects it and if this setting isn't turned off, the little logo appears, then it proceeds with the DirectX call. Xylo in a similar way kind of "detours" EQ DirectX calls to "massage" them however it wants.
So, the saving grace here for Xylo is that it wrappers/detours DirectX whereas we wrapper/detour EQ. This is primarily what has left it alive because it can be "agnostic" regarding the program it supports to a large degree because it is hooking DirectX calls not a specific software app. This gives you some leverage legally when Sony comes suit happy on you and says you are not licensed and are selling something based on our product. He just diversified and stymed that (good for him).
I am/was a long-time Xylo user, prolly about #20 on his registered list. I think his program is good,
--
That said, I'll give Xylo his dues. Wrappering DirectX calls isn't a simple feat much less drawing on EQ requested surfaces unless you already know how to do it. All we have to do is figure out where EQ makes it's DirectX surface calls (hopefully it is in a global function) then detour it... viola... I just dont have time anymore to help other than just advice via the forums.
Let me know your thoughts. And btw Lax, awesome job dude.
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