Forums going downhill!

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:39 am

I've seen this forum go downhill over the past few months with everyone trashing others and not wanting to help folks.

Instead of flaming folks in the forums about being a newbie try helping them out some, so they don't ask what you call a stupid questions. Just remember before you got the ego that you have now you was that stupid little newbie to someone else and over time someone may have helped you get to the level of knowledge you have now.

I've even seen the attitudes of the dev's change as well and it shows in the forums as well as the code. I like reading code and seeing cuss words in it.

Makes me few like I'm back in middle school. Since some folks will read this and take it the wrong way and flame me over it bring it on and get it out of your system in this stupid thread vs. the other threads. Use this as your free therapy session.

vzmule · Post by **vzmule** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:48 pm

96%+ of questions asked have been answered dozens of times on this board. It's always been the overall attitude on the board to be happy to help people if they have put serious effort into helping themselves first.

I personally will flame someone relentlessly if they're asking something that gets asked several times a week without trying to find it on their own.

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:16 pm

I agree that most folks don't read/research before posting and some deserve some comments but think of it this way, I nobody answers the post then they will research the answer themselves, but when flames start then it starts to waste everyones time because it's a back and fourth pointless talk.

wilso132 · Post by **wilso132** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:12 pm

Personally I don't flame anyone who asks even the dumb questions, but I won't post an answer to them at all. It seems more logical to me to let the person actually sit there and wonder why no one has answered their question, which then leads to them to search the rest of the forum (were as flaming for the most part is childish).

The only thing that ever ticked me off is the new PLBot.mac with the /shout's incorporated into it... not like it's hard to remove, just rubbed me the wrong way.

dont_know_at_all · Post by **dont_know_at_all** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:45 pm

Hey, newbs! PM MQSEQ for answers to stupid questions.

All stupid questions will be deleted from this forum.

Welcome to 8th grade!

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:45 pm

Sweet PM me I don't care, (Yahoo Messenger as well) it's not like they don't anyway. But unfortunately this shows the attitudes of some of the dev's which is fine with me since I know how to ingore the posts.

As for post that has been answered many time you being a Moderator of the forums you can delete/lock the posts that you feel have been answered before.

Look at the MQ2Auth thread it's 4 pages long and should only be 1 and a half pages, all because of a avatar. Folks got there feelings hurt then the trash talk began.

Do a search for the cuss words FU*K (33 posts), SH*T (150 posts), B*TCH (53 posts), now being educated folks you have to think and type the words vs. speaking them outload. I cuss all the time (so it nothing to do with beliefs) but I don't intentionally write them down just to flame some one because they did something you feel was stupid. Now if you asked them they probably don't think it was a stupid question.

It's sad when I get PM's from folks telling me how they like the forums at MySEQ vs. MacroQuest all because of the attitudes. Now the funny thing is alot of the folks that visit/post at the MySEQ forums are folks from the MacroQuest forums but you see the belittleing of folks. I will admit I answer the same questions over and over and it gets old (and I have even posted about it several times) but we have started to get more folks involved with the forums and are starting the How To's and FAQ's to help cut down the same old questions.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:15 am

This is a really lame thread.

People get free software here. People get free updates here. People get all the information they could ever need if they read EVERY SINGLE POSTING on this board.

Honestly, I sincerely believe that you want to use this software, you should cometo the boards and read every new posting since your last visit. If you're new, you should read every thread in the help boards, the general boards, and the development boards (minus the structs, etc.. boards).

No one gets flamed on these boards that do not deserve it. Find me a posting where someone is unfairly flamed, and then we'll talk. Otherwise, I suggest people PAY someone to compile and debug/explain MQ to them or else live with the boards/devs the way they are.

Elric · Post by **Elric** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:38 pm

Woohoo! I'm not the only one who reads damn near every post there is when I join a board!

wilso132 · Post by **wilso132** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:42 pm

Elric wrote:Woohoo! I'm not the only one who reads damn near every post there is when I join a board!

Nope :) I read every post and read every new post every time I check the boards... People would be amazed how much you can learn that way.

Ute · Post by **Ute** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:04 pm

I am a newb here and I am already sick of the lazy ass questions from people who can’t take 5min to try and find the answer themselves. But on the other hand flaming is childish. I think wilso132 has the right idea; just don’t respond to the lazy questions. The people who post them will either go away or discover the wonders of the search feature.

That being said, always try to keep in mind that when you are trying to learn something like MQ for the first time and you have never done anything like it before, the learning curve is steep and it can be difficult to remember everything that you have read. So far the biggest problem for me has been trying to learn how to script when my reference script has errors in it.

It took me two days to get a basic bard twist macro working.

Lax · Post by **Lax** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:56 pm

I assume you're referring to my flaming of people who can't seem to find the link that says "READ THIS OR WE WILL NOT SUPPORT YOU". This is kind of like an IQ test. If you can't read what the post says that it directs you to, and you can't follow step by step instructions, you deserve to be flamed. Our job is not to sit here and baby every person that comes up and either refuses to read it, or ignores half of it.

If you're a newbie asking for help, fine, this is the place to ask and receive answers. If you're a newbie asking for help that is answered in the first post you are directed to, why the FUCK should we be nice? If the answer is obscure and well hidden, I would be much nicer.

mcswanbeck · Post by **mcswanbeck** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:22 am

Why not just add a few sticky AND closed threads in THIS forum, like:
- How to compile MQ2
- How to compile MQ2 for your friend (MQ2Auth)
- How to avoid crashing everytime you zone
etc.

With new releases, there might come new bugs/errors, which again leads to ppl posting in an already way too long thread. Then when a new user comes to try to get help, then (s)he has to read through 3+ pages of various information when it should be on page.

I experienced it myself when I first downloaded MQ and compiled it... There was a huge page (not to mention the amount of replies) with information, while it actually could be cooked down to a few lines (pr. compiler).

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:57 am

My original post was not meant to be a post about folks not reading and then falming them it's more about the attitudes within the flames and the language that is used in them.

I don't care if you flame folks becuase they don't read the sticky posts. As for obscured posts just about every one is obscured in some form or fashion. The main post of a thread hardly ever gets updated with the corrected information that was brought out throughout the thread itself and after 6 pages folks tend to some reading them when it becomes 80% trash talk. So if there is a How To type thread update the main post and that way folks will read it without trolling through the trash talk.

As for folks not reading and posting new help questions delete or don't answer the question. I understand folk get pissed for seeing the same thing over and over but that can be a sign of it's not been explained in a fashion that normal folks can understand. I've seen post about MQ2Telnet not working and/or couldn't get it configured to where they couldn't login and the issue stems from folks using the old macroquest.ini vs. the new mq2telnet.ini for the login information (McKorr responded to clarify how to get it to work). Now take that for example there could be a sticky on How To get Telnet to work so that question doesn't get asked again (in theroy as long as folks read).

Now back to the orginal reason of the thread.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:39 am

My original post was not meant to be a post about folks not reading and then falming them it's more about the attitudes within the flames and the language that is used in them.

Trying to tell people what attitudes to have when they're working for free and providing a highly valuable product for nothing is rather ludicrous.
If people don't like the attitudes they can leave. No one here owes anyone anything.

This thread makes no sense to me at all. Anyone that gets anything for free has no right to complain about any aspect of the delivery or support.
Honestly, I don't think anyone of us wants anyone using the program that doesn't take the time to figure it out, and/or doesn't take the time to phrase a question in an intelligent fashion after HOURS of trial and error.

If it were up to me, I'd refuse help to anyone that hadn't taken the time to read through a C++ book and either a Visual Studio book or the time to figure it out. We all started from scratch, and many like myself are self taught as well. It was about 5 years of self teaching to get to a point where I could edit/feel comfortable with c++ code (MQ and others). Why should I give a shit about someone that wants to come and have it given to them in 2 days?

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:19 am

If it were up to me, I'd refuse help to anyone that hadn't taken the time

You said it, don't help then it's your choice. Now for you having 5 yrs of coding then I would consider you a newbie as well since I have more but does that mean I should belittle you because you don't know something? I don't think so.

Since this is a Open Source project folks can look at the code if they want (won't help alot since it's not fully documented) but if they are good enough at C++ they can figure it out.

Now trying to get back on track, this is a stupid thread and the only folks who have had any negative input in it is the Dev's themselves and pointing out the attitudes are not ludicrous since there are alot of none dev's that have put alot of effort into the project adn to make everyone suffer reading all the trash is the ludicrous junk.

The reason I posted this was the thread about the avatar and watched how a simple request turned so quick into a screw you, abuse of company resources, relegious, who cares trash talk all in a thread that is important to getting MQ2 running, hmmm MQ2Auth. Try creating a Forum Category Trash Talk, so everyone can go there and smack talk so a thread doesn't get hijacked into something stupidier than this thread.