Sony is snooping on us!

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:32 pm

If you have WinHack, load it up watching the EQGAME.EXE (EQ memory) and do a search for for VISTED and MACROQUEST and just watch the data they are collecting on us. The are monitoring what files we open (Most Recents), URL's visted, Cookies, Macros loaded etc.

The developers and folks who know how to peek onto them as they peek on to us can verify this. I only looked around a few minutes. The question is how long have they been doing this and what are they going to do about it? Tomorrow 12/18/03 is a big patch day, so folks may want to watch what they are doing in game with 3rd party software. We need a program that can dump the EQ memory to disk so we can use that against them if they want to play hardball. I clicked No for them inspecting my computer and this would definately fall under illegal search and seizure and they could be held accountable for it. Rmember back in the late 80's early 90's when Prodigy tried to do the same thing for marketing stuff, they had a class action lawsuit placed against them and lost big time.

I have not really gone through the entire EQ memory to see what they are gathering on us. That's where the memory dump comes into play. So if Lax or one of the dev's can quickly verify and write something to catch them then we can see what they know. Oh BTW Sony, capturing the cookies and collecting them you are gathering computer user names (myuser@macroquest2.com) is a form of computer hacking, since that user name is the account you log into the computer with.

This post is for information only and is still under investigation so don't do rash things and get to paranoid. Just clear your most recents, url history and delete cookies.

Now when MQ hooks into EQ memory they become the same memory basically and that could explain the detailed macroquest information in there but not the rest of the stuff I seen, that's why we need to investigate some more.

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:09 am

After clearing the History, deleteing cookies, clearing most recent and rebooting, I loaded EQ and did a search for VISITED and MACROQUEST and found nothing at this time from the search. While in game I launched a web browser and went to a site I don't go to (and with History wiped it shouldn't be there) and sure enough they are constantly watching what url's you are going to.

Remember this, this doesn't just effect 3rd party users it's everyone playing EQ. So they boasted having over 400,00 accounts hmm quick math 400,000 x ($13 fee x 12 months x years played) + other fees for software and lawyer fees = a world of hurt to Sony's pocket.

Raebis · Post by **Raebis** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:34 am

i hope, for mq users and sony's sake, that you are wrong

FirebornX · Post by **FirebornX** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:43 am

Well if what you say is true then it would explain a couple of past posts I remember seeing... one of which concerning Karana being a marked server. If they have this information, which through a program like EQ shouldn't be that hard to get at, then it wouldn't take a giant leap to find out exactly who would be most likely to run 3rd party software.

akirassj · Post by **akirassj** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:49 am

don't like it? Sony is a big company fight it the fun way. Post on alot of non SOE msg boards (maybe include links with memory dump or something) and how they are keep tabs on files access and webpages visited and how this is so wrong and EQ = spyware. you don't even have to mention MQ2 or anything just let regular customers who aren't doing ANYTHING AT ALL wrong see that and see how sony likes the reaction.

Welkin · Post by **Welkin** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:26 am

This requires serious investigation. If this information is really sent to Sony, it would be reasonably easy to get it forcably removed by posting about it on mobhunter, alla, crealm, and the various large class message boards. Once the info gets out there, "normal" customers will be in their throat so fast they have no chance but to kill the project.

That said, I am still not sure this info is intentionally collected, or sent to Sony. There have been many groundless Spyware allegations against many sorts of software before. Often, they are just a result of how data is handled with FAT32, and other unintentional elements.

Curious · Post by **Curious** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:56 am

If this is true, is it really something to worry about? They've been collecting information (possibly), yet I still have my account. Yea, it's definately something to get upset about, but is it something to worry about?

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:49 am

The post are true, what needs to happen now is the Packet Sniffers need to come out and capture data being sent to Sony. That will prove if the data being collected is being gathered at Sony.

I will see if I can get Sniffer Pro installed on my machince tonight and monitor some packets during the time I search on the web. I' also going to write a memory dump program unless I can find one that is already made and is easy to use.

vzmule · Post by **vzmule** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:33 am

I personally name my executable and the directory something else anyway but ya, if this is true, it's wrong.

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:39 am

All my executeables are something very vague and I didn't do a search for .Exe names. As for the EQW I had opened the EQW.Ini into a text editor and seen it listed. do'nt have the option to rename the Ini file for EQW.

bob_the_builder · Post by **bob_the_builder** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:54 am

This has been discussed before on the SEQ site. This is simply the IE doing its normal searches on the drive, cookies, histories. This is NOT SOE doing naythign illegal. It is simply your OS's IE doing its maintenance.

http://seq.sourceforge.net/forums/showt ... eadid=2360

http://seq.sourceforge.net/forums/showt ... eadid=2516

Bob

/looks up in the skiy, was that a Black Helicopter I heard?

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:31 am

I read those a very long time ago (or at least the second one, but I cant remember since I have one brain cell left and cazn't remember if I slept last night hehe).

They post the same thing that I point out about they wouldn't risk the use of collecting the data to ban folks but the real question is why EQ is hooked into monitoring URL's, Recent Files, etc. I will test a few other programs (ie. MySEQ) and see if that program monitors those same areas. Being a developer of MySEQ I know the code inside and out and I know it's not coded to monitor those areas, so if they so up we can thank Microsoft, if it's not then we know it's EQ doing it.

Marketing research does not give Sony a reason to grab data from a persons computer. That's exactly what Prodigy was trying to do (they actually sent snapshots of chucnks of hrad drive data, so had gotten a hold of lawyers client data, oops). EQ doesn't appear to be doing this at this time but Sniffers and memory dump will help prove or disprove this information.

Will this stop me from using the programs? Nope

Doodman · Post by **Doodman** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:17 am

MQSEQ wrote:The post are true, what needs to happen now is the Packet Sniffers need to come out and capture data being sent to Sony. That will prove if the data being collected is being gathered at Sony.

I will see if I can get Sniffer Pro installed on my machince tonight and monitor some packets during the time I search on the web. I' also going to write a memory dump program unless I can find one that is already made and is easy to use.

I work heavily with the EQEmu packet collector (and am a developer on it) and have not seen any data in the data stream that would make me think that this information is being sent anywhere. *IF* and I say *IF* any data like this is being sent to Sony is not on any where near the scale you are assuming. I see no file names, urls, etc in the stream.

Plus, Sniffer Pro wouldn't help you much. The EQ packets use a rolling encryption scheme so all you would see through SP would be the encrypted packets. As a point, if SEQ and the EQEmu packet collector are not running at zone-in time (when the rolling encryption starts) they cannot sync up with the data stream.

Just an FYI.

Wizeex · Post by **Wizeex** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:26 am

Hi all,

I'm new to the MQ scene, but have been helping out in a small way with MySEQ. Anyway, thanks to all the devs for all of these projects.

One of the questions would be "IF SOE is really collecting data, then how long have the been doing it?" IF the data has been collected for some time, then I'd assume its for marketing purposes. I may not like that but that would stand to reason. However, IF they have only recently been trying to collect data, then their purpose is quite clear.

MQSEQ · Post by **MQSEQ** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:29 am

True on the Sniffer part but your program sounds like it can monitor pakets going to Sony.

Now I'm not saying they are sending the data but what they can be doing is collecting it locally then check it locally and set a flag and send that flag to Sony. Lax, McKorr, EQMule, Plazmic and the rest of the dev's are very smart and they have a nice toolset they use to figure out what data is but there is still alot of data that is still unknown at this time. Ifyour a EQ developer and would like to shed some light on the subject please do, MQ dev's would like any help they could get from Sony in making a better product.

When I do copy protection for my software I don't make it so a normal person can see what I'm doing, so it would be very easy to stream data back to them in little chunks. Now I doubt they are doing that as I stated above but it very interesting that this type of data is located within EQ's memory space.

Sony is snooping on us!

Sony is snooping on us!

explains a few things

hummm