Nov 24th patch and the Palladin class balance

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DreamKing
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Post by DreamKing » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:41 pm

Undies wrote:Well I guess we'll see a few more meleeing 2-boxers switch over to MQ... those abilities sound like a lot more button-mashing.
That's what I was thinking. This sounds like a perfect fit for MQ.

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Post by Narces » Thu Nov 20, 2003 2:03 am

McKorr, all I can say bro is... damn you gotta wait.

I play in a guild thats about half way thru the elemental planes. Here is what I can tell you.

1. SK/Paladin loot ratio. Totally irrelevant. Mobs drop molds, that any class can make into their armor. Weapons? Once you hit elemental, hold out for a Stone Etched War Sword (both Paly and SK, among others, can wield). FT for hybrids out the ass. Point, most loot is for a couple classes.

2. Your hp/ac. Thats more of a loot ratio, but when you get molds and what not, its there. Most of my guild's paladin's have higher or equal HP to our SKs.

3. Tanking/Agro vs Warrior. Yeah, most of the guild's warriors are crying. Instant agro from stuns, they *get* heals. On a mob that memblurs itself or one that requires exact positioning, a Paladin tanks. Tanking with a good cleric team isn't that hard, managing the agro can be.

4. DMG. Irrelevant. Thats like warriors whining about their DMG output. With the right weapon your doing as much or more in some cases, depending on the mob. Ever seen a paladin with a decent (Tier2) weapon crit for 3k on an undead mob with one hit? Its pretty neet to watch a tanking class do it.

Mobs being resistant to stuns. They are immune/mitigate slows too. PoP mobs can be a pain sometimes man, but thats what makes it challenging.

Paladins can be MT, most often offtanking is easier for them thou. They can grab and hold agro very easy, slip a heal in every once and awhile, while debuffers pussify the mob. Paladins own agro-wise and are damn good tanks when they need to be. The main difference between a warrior and a paladin is the defensive disc which more or less makes a warrior 2x the tank every 10minutes or so. They suck for holding agro on major mobs thou, even very well equip.

Honestly, one of my accounts has a 56war. I wish he were a paladin. He would probably be 65 up with my other chars in the planes instead of my bazaar mule.

--

In regards to the new melee system. Eh. Yeah, for none MQ'n 2boxers, its the touch of death in my eyes. They won't be nearly as good as those of us using MQ, but hey... those are the breaks.

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Post by Mckorr » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:19 am

Thanks for a decent reply. I'm not likely to see the elemental planes before EQ goes poof though. I don't have the time to devote to a raiding guild. Hell, I think I'm the only one in my guild flagged for Tactics. Maybe in another week or so I'll be high enough level to get access to BoT and HoH. But elemental flags aren't likely to happen unless I move to a hard core raiding guild, and no way my wife is gonna let me play that much :)

I know at the high end paladins balance out. It's the mid-level game (40 - 60) where the imbalance is bad. And it would only take a few minor adjustments to fix it, but those are unlikely to happen. Just not enough paladins running around, and we tend to have martyr complexes anyway :) Guess we all don't whine to SOE enough :)

No worries, EQ2 will come out and I'll try it out with some other class. Or I'll finally get disgusted and do something with that 20 something wizard I have lying around.
MQ2: Think of it as Evolution in action.

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Post by vladk » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:41 pm

Please stop thinking that Pallies are in ANY way underpowered or unbalanced. If you think you get shafted play ANY melee class especially a warrior. You know what you will get? What you are right now but take away all the spells.
As to SK/Pally, there are many more Pallies than SKs in the game, they are very much in balance with each other but you still get the better end of the stick.
Right now from the tank world you have it best in the game and you have no reason to whine at all. I would GLADLY trade my warrior for a pally (well now with these new changes I would hesitate and see if they are any good). I have 60+ monk,shaman,ranger,cleric,pally. Believe you me when I say that you are in a VERY good sitaution comparing to other classes.
I didn't want to do this but some people are just clueless and always think that hte grass is greener somewhere else.
In the end, you want a class so that you stop whining? Play Beastlord :)

P.S. Oh yeah about EQ2, that's like another year away...
Mckorr wrote:Thanks for a decent reply. I'm not likely to see the elemental planes before EQ goes poof though. I don't have the time to devote to a raiding guild. Hell, I think I'm the only one in my guild flagged for Tactics. Maybe in another week or so I'll be high enough level to get access to BoT and HoH. But elemental flags aren't likely to happen unless I move to a hard core raiding guild, and no way my wife is gonna let me play that much :)

I know at the high end paladins balance out. It's the mid-level game (40 - 60) where the imbalance is bad. And it would only take a few minor adjustments to fix it, but those are unlikely to happen. Just not enough paladins running around, and we tend to have martyr complexes anyway :) Guess we all don't whine to SOE enough :)

No worries, EQ2 will come out and I'll try it out with some other class. Or I'll finally get disgusted and do something with that 20 something wizard I have lying around.

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Post by Mckorr » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:33 pm

vladk wrote:...some people are just clueless...stop whining...
There's that word again. And again I reply, remember you said that come patch day...

I don't consider discussing perceived imbalance issues "whining", especially when I'm open to a rational discussion about why I might be wrong.

But, I will state once again for the record, flaming devs is a "bad idea (tm)".

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Post by Undies » Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:01 am

Well I think SOE have it all completely WRONG with this melee change!!!!

The sooner SOE realise the huge problems pallies have and FIX them the better off we will all be!

(does that get me any brownie points?)

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Post by Mckorr » Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:45 am

Undies wrote:(does that get me any brownie points?)
lol

Nope, but I'll make sure you get a working copy of the new source after the next patch.

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Post by Narces » Sun Nov 23, 2003 2:59 am

Aye, McKorr. I haven't done the old lvl'n game since.. original EQ prior to Kunark. And even then, in your lvl range I was guilded. Guess I just got lucky with my main being a shaman, we've never really been weak or anything like that.

Well, maybe just keep working with your guild to get you geared. Killing VZ can net ya a nice paladin weapon, Resplendant War Maul (51/37). Ornate armor drops off a few rares in Tactics too, aswell as BoT. Once your guild moves onto BoT Tower Lords you can get ornate bp mold. Just gotta farm and save plat and spend it on upgrades. EQ is all about investing time, thats why we have MQ, so sometimes we don't have to spend AS much time.

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Post by theafkxper » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:52 am

Mckorr wrote: For the same reason we also seem to have less HP

you roxxor and all, but your smokin something... forget about pally self only buff that stacks with damn near everything? Pallies in the high game will ALWAYS beat a comparably equipped SK, usually by a couple hundred.


Edit: somehow i deleted "HP" from the quote, didnt want to confuse anyone...

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Post by Narces » Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:55 am

Think he was talking about how more SK armor drops/is easier to get. PoP and even back in Velious this was irrelevant as both armors were quested for. Since you guild is mid Velious/Luclin/PoP, your options for armor should be opening up a good bit more man.

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Post by Mckorr » Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:42 pm

Yes and no. My guild is Vellious/Luclin, I'm Tier 1 and early Tier 2. Not a raiding guild, so unless I piggyback off friends I won't see much of the higher end content. Frustrating, since I don't want to raid constantly but it seems the only way to stay competative at times.

And yes, I was talking about how SK armor and weapons drop more often than pally. Maybe it's all perception, but I've seen a hell of a lot more SK stuff drop than paladin.

All the arguments I see about "pallies rock" refer to the end game btw. Sure, at 65 with a bunch of AA's there's no problem. The balance issues occur at lower levels, in the 45-55 range, maybe as high as 60. They aren't major issues, so you won't see fixes, I just think things could do with a bit of tweaking. 90 percent of my offense (stuns) won't touch anything above 55; the rest (2) are limited to 60. Undead nukes are pointless, since I can do more dmage with a sword in the time it takes to cast them.

The Brell line of buffs are great of course, no complaints there.

Like I said, I don't expect anything to be fixed. Just be nice if they did some fine tuning someday.

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Post by leptoid » Tue May 11, 2004 6:00 pm

I have a 57 Pally and the only thing that really sucks is now I can't solo anymore. I mean, I can go to say the Sarnak Fortress and own every mob in there, but so can anyone else who's 20-30 levels higher than them. I think there should be more pally/sk weapons available. Warriors, rangers, and rogues seem to have a plethra of them. Granted, pallies and SK's do have some very nice class specific weapons available, but nobody ever wants to go get the mob when the only good thing that drops is for pallies/sk's. Don't believe me? Try getting the Jeldorin sometime. I have yet to find someone willing to camp it. No, I don't need it now, but yeah, it would have been cool 15 levels ago.

On the good side, BoT has an awesome pally only sword and it's calling to me. I... must.. level... and get... it!!!

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